Definition of a Hostel

[Goofys]

Originally Posted by Tim

Without shared rooms, it's simply not a hostel. It just a hotel, motel or guesthouse using the word "hostel" in its name so it can cash in on backpackers.

Hostels aren't just for Backpackers/Travellers.

I use the word Hostel so that I can cash in on people wanting to stay in a place in Newquay that has multi-bedded rooms, communual areas & self catering facilities.

There is sufficient demand in Newquay for private multi-bedded rooms, and a large chain Hostel on our doorstep that services the demand for shared multi-bedded rooms - that we have no need (or intention) to cash in on Backpackers.

If somebody knocks on our door looking to stay in a shared dorm, we send them round the corner to St. Christophers.

[Tim]

I'm not saying that you aren't a legitimate accommodation provider, it's just not a hostel. That's all.

There is a market for a place with private dorms. Particularly for groups (either tour groups or school groups). But it's not a hostel if those dorms aren't available to independent travellers.

[Scotch Argus]

Originally Posted by Tim

I totally disagree. You can't have a place with all private rooms and call it a hostel. That is false advertising.

That's not false advertising - saying you have free internet and then charging $3 per hour for it is false advertising. Saying "All rooms en-suite" and then putting people in a non en-suite room is false advertising. Calling such a place a hostel might disagree with your definition, but it's not false advertising.

Originally Posted by Tim

If you broaden the term to include all types of accommodation then every place becomes a hostel.

No-one was trying to include all types of accommodation. The question was whether a place with multi occupancy rooms with bunks and common room and self catering facilities could be called a hostel. Surely that is the purpose of this thread?

Originally Posted by Tim

It is simple. If it doesn't have shared rooms it isn't a hostel. There is no grey area here, you simply can't call yourself a hostel when quite clearly you are not. It is misleading to travellers.

It's obviously simple to you, but the market is evolving beyond your definition. That's why it's being discussed. Personally I wouldn't call a place with all twin rooms a hostel, but that doesn't mean it's not.

[Tim]

Originally Posted by Scotch Argus

the market is evolving beyond your definition. That's why it's being discussed.

I agree that the market is evolving. But a hostel is still a hostel and other types of accommodation claiming to be hostels are not.

The problem is that the other types of accommodation (hostel-type places with private dorms that operate for groups only and hotel-type places with hostel-style common areas) don't have a clearly descriptive and universally recognised title.

They clearly aren't hotels, but most travellers wouldn't call them hostels either.

Perhaps there are already names for these types of places (guesthouse or travellers' lodge perhaps) but these names are not univerally recognised. I think it would be a good idea to develop names for these types of accommodation, but of course popularising a new generic term is very difficult to do.

However I do think it is important not to group these three types of accommodation together as they are clearly different and the wrong term could hurt business as the market for each is different and each should develop its own niche market.

[Scotch Argus]

Originally Posted by Tim

I'm not saying that you aren't a legitimate accommodation provider, it's just not a hostel. That's all.

There is a market for a place with private dorms. Particularly for groups (either tour groups or school groups). But it's not a hostel if those dorms aren't available to independent travellers.

I'd say that the market for private rooms larger than a hotel room - e.g. a 4 or 6 bed room is growing well outside of the tour and school group market. We get families, tourist (often Spanish) groups of 4 or 6 or more, hillwalkers, cyclists and even Australian CUBs travelling with their parents, plus many others. If I were to advise anyone thinking of opening a hostel it would be to pay attention to all these markets, and look beyond the traditional backpacker. (However this does depend on location - if you are in a location that attracts enough hard core backpackers then go for it.)

The interesting thing to me about the definition of a hostel is that it's not a fixed thing that is one thing to everyone. I've had customers tell me that anything not in HI (or YHA) is not a hostel. Or another who feels that you're not a hostel if you don't keep some percentage of beds for walk ups when you open at 5PM. Or others who seem to rigidly believe that a hostel should't have a TV as it spoils the atmosphere. Whilst I doubt anyone would agree with these claims, they illustrate the differing opinions.

There are many niches within the hostel market, just as there are in hotels - we just have to try and serve them all as best we can. It's certainly hard to keep everyone happy.

[Hostels]

Originally Posted by Scotch Argus

Well I certainly disagree with that -if a place had a mix of multiple occupancy rooms - for example twins quads and six bedded rooms, with hostel facilities but didn't sell beds to share with strangers it would still be a hostel. I can't see how it could possibly be a hotel or motel. I think the definition of guesthouse varies around the world, but it would not be a guesthouse in the UK.

Maybe this is an issue found only in the UK? (I don't know -- I'm asking )

There are some kinds of accommodation that are only found in regional areas -- "hostal" for instance.

I think an accommodation provider with only private rooms, some shared spaces, and a fun group atmosphere would be considered a guesthouse in most places.

Here is a mall hotel in Canada with bunk beds in the rooms. I've stayed there and it's definitely a not a hostel. It's not even a dorm in my opinion (despite the bunk beds). It's a hotel room with extra beds for families or larger groups who want to be in the same room instead of being split into two rooms.

Originally Posted by Goofys

Hostels aren't just for Backpackers/Travellers.

I'm not saying that a hostel should only cater to independent travelers, but a hostel without shared dorms seems to me like a "motel" without parking. You don't have to have a car to say at a motel, but a motel needs to accommodate people with cars or it isn't a motel.

I wonder if this debate has to do with slightly different meanings of words in the UK. I'd be interested to hear from other people in the UK.

Goofy's, do you ever get people who show up looking for shared dorms? Are some people surprised when you tell them you don't have shared dorms?

[uktrail]

Originally Posted by Scotch Argus

Well I certainly disagree with that -if a place had a mix of multiple occupancy rooms - for example twins quads and six bedded rooms, with hostel facilities but didn't sell beds to share with strangers it would still be a hostel. I can't see how it could possibly be a hotel or motel. I think the definition of guesthouse varies around the world, but it would not be a guesthouse in the UK.

Far from cashing in on backpackers I think such a place would probably be aiming at a different market - e.g. families and groups of tourists, who find hotel and B&B accommodation too expensive as it usually caters for twins and couples.

May I bring back the case of the individual traveller? How would he feel if he came to a place that had "multiple occupancy rooms" but "didnt sell beds to share with strangers"? He would have to pay double anybody else. And he would go away seething with anger at the discrimination against him, as I have done when applying for guest house accommodation.

[aboriginalhostel]

Originally Posted by uktrail

May I bring back the case of the individual traveller? How would he feel if he came to a place that had "multiple occupancy rooms" but "didnt sell beds to share with strangers"? He would have to pay double anybody else. And he would go away seething with anger at the discrimination against him, as I have done when applying for guest house accommodation.

Right! Although if we look at it from the sociability angle, even if individual travelers are allowed to stay in a room for single bed rate, a hostel should provide rooms you CAN share with "stranger" fellow travelers. The hostel community is about to meet new people. Having your own room does provide you privacy but also insulates from the community. if you start having issues and can't tolerate your room mates, you already close the gate before you meet them...

[Scotch Argus]

Originally Posted by uktrail

May I bring back the case of the individual traveller? How would he feel if he came to a place that had "multiple occupancy rooms" but "didnt sell beds to share with strangers"? He would have to pay double anybody else. And he would go away seething with anger at the discrimination against him, as I have done when applying for guest house accommodation.

I can sympathise with you, although just turning up anywhere and assuming there'll be a bed can be dangerous. What if a hostel had dorms, but all the beds were sold in them and they only had a private left? Is that a hostel? Or what if it's just full. If you want a guaranteed bed you'd be better off booking ahead. That way you'll find if a place offers the sort of accommodation you want. My opinion is that offering sharing with strangers is not a defining characteristic of a hostel. I'm happy to be in a minority of one.

[Scotch Argus]

Originally Posted by aboriginalhostel

Right! Although if we look at it from the sociability angle, even if individual travelers are allowed to stay in a room for single bed rate, a hostel should provide rooms you CAN share with "stranger" fellow travelers. The hostel community is about to meet new people. Having your own room does provide you privacy but also insulates from the community. if you start having issues and can't tolerate your room mates, you already close the gate before you meet them...

Most of the people who've stayed with us in the past year seem to prefer private rooms. Our market will be very different to yours I'm sure, and we have to service it. Personally I don't believe people in private rooms are necessarily any less social than dorm beds. Some of them are just scared of snorers or are people who like privacy when getting dressed etc. They aren't wrong because of this.