Definition of a Hostel

[aboriginalhostel]

Originally Posted by Hostels

Is it still a "hostel" if it requires 3-night minimum stay or only has 1 dorm room and 3 private rooms? (meaning less than 50% dorm beds)

Depends... Is the min. 3-nights stands for walk-ins as well? Or only on booking engines? Or maybe just on one booking engine?

I think the 50% is a necessity to filter out hotels, guesthouses, apartments, etc. They are not hostels. They are hotels, guesthouses, apartments, etc with their own descriptions.

It is rather about the capacity than the number of rooms. Which means having a six bedded or bigger dorm and 3 double rooms would not change in this matter.

When I visited Berlin, I've seen a "hostel" which was an actual boat-hotel, besides its forty-odd private rooms they had only one 4 bedded dorm in order to call themselves a hostel... In my perspective that was not a hostel....

Also a hostel is not just a cheap hotel. There are hotels from one star to five. Each star describes what is included.

I think there is a main difference as well about the people who visits us.

For example, those classic backpackers make online reservations only during high season, just to ensure having beds. During off-season they still tend to show up without reservation or reserve for one night and extend it if they like the place.
Budget holiday travelers prefer to have reservation well months in advance, knowing exact dates of their stay.

I guess enforcing online reservations has dropped the rider to the other side of the horse... The best thing about hostelling is the flexibility... Which accepts any kind of travelers.

Originally Posted by Hostels

How would you define a "guesthouse"? Many properties in Japan call themselves "guesthouses" when they would be called "hostels" if they were located elsewhere. Are there any attributes that make a property a "guesthouse" as opposed to a "hostel"?

IMHO, guesthouses are the ones with (either mainly or only) private rooms, although not hotels.
The person in charge is usually the host, instead of a receptionist.
If they serve breakfast or half-board, then we can call them Bed & Breakfast.

[uktrail]

I agree essentially with Tim.

Originally Posted by Hostels

Is it still a "hostel" if it requires 3-night minimum stay or only has 1 dorm room and 3 private rooms? (meaning less than 50% dorm beds)

How would you define a "guesthouse"? Many properties in Japan call themselves "guesthouses" when they would be called "hostels" if they were located elsewhere. Are there any attributes that make a property a "guesthouse" as opposed to a "hostel"?

I think a 'minimum stay' rules it out. It certainly implies that the management are not considering the needs of many travellers, and half-implies that they really prefer to have longer-stay people.

Some good hostels (Francesco's in Ios, Green Lizard in Hvar) have more beds in private rooms than in dorms, but the dorm option is there.

I would define a guesthouse as having only private rooms. Some of them have communal areas, and a very small number have kitchen facilities. Guesthouse = B&B = Pension. The borderline between guest house and hotel is hard to define; reception desk not always versus always staffed? reasonable price versus exorbitant price? Most YMCAs are guest houses rather than hostels.

[aboriginalhostel]

Originally Posted by uktrail

I agree essentially with Tim.

I think a 'minimum stay' rules it out. It certainly implies that the management are not considering the needs of many travellers, and half-implies that they really prefer to have longer-stay people.

As running a hostel there are some marketing strategies regarding the minimum stay. You can choose to have a certain period in year (eg. Christmas, Easter, etc.) or special events (like Octoberfest in Munich or the Bulls' Run in Pamplona) where you'd prefer to have longer stay reservations than just one night, in this case it is totally understandable. Couple of years ago we preferred to have min. 2 nights for the off-season weekends, as we tended to have one night reservations on either Friday or Saturday, which regarding the capacity didn't pay out, especially such bad months...although if there were any walk-ins, we still did let them stay with us even for one night.

This above is completely different about if there is a minimum stay rule all the time, as it is more likely a "guesthouse-strategy", where it is preferred to have long term guests only.

Originally Posted by uktrail

Some good hostels (Francesco's in Ios, Green Lizard in Hvar) have more beds in private rooms than in dorms, but the dorm option is there.

You are right... And they are just as good as they are. But how would you filter out those hotels, guesthouses, etc. which are not hostels and although they advertise to have dorms but have only one (which sometimes even never available) just to get listed as a hostel?

[Hostels]

This is just a draft and not "officially online", but it's an attempt to define hostel for the hostel directory.

I think there are some gray areas -- such as properties that sometimes have a minimum stay, or that have lower than a certain percentage of dorm beds. I would like to keep this site's definition as inclusive as possible without being too extreme (like calling a budget hotel a hostel). I can think of a specific hostel in Japan that has 3 private rooms and one 2-bed dorm in a very-communal living situation -- and I would include that property as a "hostel", though on the border. Maybe that specific property could be called a "guesthouse and hostel".

Any thoughts, additions, edits? It's just a draft for something definitive that I can refer people to when they ask questions about this site.

[uktrail]

I think your definition is about right. It's a little indefinite, but perhaps that's a good thing as you can 'bend' the rule one way or the other for borderlines.

I have met a few borderlines in Wales. Several places on principle won't put people in one room if they have not arrived together. So one place charges £16 per person, but will put an individual in a single room and charge him £18. I would not accept this as a hostel, although they use the word hostel in their title. They have a common area, but I don't suppose it is well patronised. They have no kitchen "but we have a dining room and you can bring in and eat a take-away meal there", which is at least better than most guesthouses.

Another one (part of a pub) also doesnt believe that 'strangers' should share rooms, so they will put a single traveller in a room to himself, but they dont charge him any extra. They have a kitchen/diner, spoilt by having a TV. The price is low. I would call this a hostel, but I would not argue if you said it wasn't.

Abergavenny, which had a 'launch' when it set up as a 'YHA hostel' under YHA Enterprise (independent, but in the YHA listing), took pride in showing their bedrooms, very good facilities, some single or double. Dorms? Oh we would put single travellers in their own room, and the charge would be the same. The charge? £24 per person incl breakfast, whether single or multiple. Oh, isn't that a bit expensive? Oh we have offers, at present it's just £15 a night! They take pride in their meals, so I dont think they offer a kitchen. The common areas both have TVs.

[Hostels]

Originally Posted by uktrail

Several places on principle won't put people in one room if they have not arrived together....I would not accept this as a hostel, although they use the word hostel in their title.

I don't think I would call that a hostel either. The description sounds like a large hotel room with bunk beds.

Originally Posted by uktrail

...some single or double. Dorms? Oh we would put single travellers in their own room, and the charge would be the same. The charge? £24 per person

A hostel with no dorms? Sounds like a "backpacker hotel".

[Hostels]

Just found an example of a property that uses "hostel" in the name but doesn't seem to have any dorms:
http://www.berkeleyhostel.com/reservation.html

____ Women's Room, single bed, $30.00 /night
____ Men's Room, single bed, $30.00 /night
____ Small Room, single bed, $55.00 /night
____ Medium Room, double bed, $65.00 /night
____ Large Room, queen bed, $75.00 /night

Interesting...

[uktrail]

From the price structure and the distinction between 'women's room' and 'men's room', I infer that these rooms are probably dorms, and you get a single bed in a shared room.

But they're not very clear in other ways also. They don't mention any rooms other than bedrooms. Do they have a lounge, a kitchen?

And they mention Berkeley many times. But it took me a lot of looking, at several pages, before I knew for certain that this is the Berkeley near San Francisco. To anyone who hasn't been there, how long would it take to be sure that this hostel is even in the USA?

[Hostels]

I found more details here:
http://www.hostelworld.com/hosteldet...Berkeley-21442

Berkeley Hostel at Piedmont House has mostly private rooms, and very little dorm space...no planned group activities... and is a youth hostel essentially due to its shared facilities, such as 'bathroom down the hall', and a community kitchen so our guests can survive affordably in Berkeley....

Piedmont House is a 'single room short-term occupancy' guest house...

EVEN THOUGH MANY OF OUR PRIVATE ROOMS ARE LISTED IN THE HOSTEL WORLD SYSTEM AS HAVING 2 BEDS, IN REALITY THESE ARE SIMPLY TWO SLEEPING SPACES IN A DOUBLE BED OR QUEEN BED. In some instances, a second bed or futon can be placed in a private room...

[uktrail]

Hmm. On their hostelworld site they do say they have a kitchen and common room and terrace. They don't realise that these are the most important facilities of a HOSTEL. But they play down dorms, as if these are a bad thing. You can't tell the price for dorms on that site, because they have no availability listed.

"Bathroom down the hall" was the norm in B&Bs and guest houses up till 10 years ago. When there is a choice in a Guest House, I would rather save £5 a night per person with 'Bathroom down the hall' than insist on ensuite.